When you got it, you got it. BAMF, baby.

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

So, I saw Salt yesterday and I was reminded, as I often am, that Katee (like Angelina) is one of the few kickass women on TV and in the movies that I really, seriously believe can kick some ass. I mean, not her personally, but the characters she plays. Both Sarah Corvus and Starbuck could fuck your shit right up, I have zero doubts about that. But I often do have doubts about other characters that normally get round up in things like the recent Wired list of female ass-kickers, even for shows that I thoroughly enjoyed and characters I liked.

For example, I'd say I'm about 95% on Sydney Bristow's ass-kicking capabilities, and about 90% or maybe 85% on Buffy (ooh but 100% on Faith). There are women on shows right now, like Anna Torv on Fringe for example, who I'm only at like 50% believability with. I know this is probably down to personal preference in a lot of the cases, but I wonder what it is that I need the character to have in order for me to buy into the idea that they can cause some serious damage? I think there's definitely a lot more showiness in some roles than others (Torv's Olivia is comparatively very low key) but there's something a bit more...believably menacing to me with a Salt or Starbuck.

Maybe it's because they're not asked to wear the hero mantle so heavily and can flirt with the dark side/anti-hero/villainy of the character, much more so than a Syd or Buffy or Olivia, who are usually compelled to remain the nice guy hero at all times. Hmm. 

So what do you think? What makes Starbuck such a believable badass for you? Are there any times/scenes/episodes in canon where you couldn't really buy into it (not talking about the moments where she's showing vulnerability but where she's specifically showing the badass side and you were like "nah, nope")? What are the qualities that a fictional badass must have? 

Comments

[ivanolix.livejournal.com]

For me, I don't think I really understood how badass looks until I took two years of martial arts. It's not about physical structure, it's not about swagger, it's about something more subtle than that. It's a certain knowledge and stance that they carry. And there are a *lot* of women on TV who have it—you can tell they've had at least one fight-training course, and therefore I believe in them. Kara's just another one of many for me.

As for qualities, though, they have to hold themselves with an easy-but-solid stance, they have to be confident, they have to be quick (physically and mentally, no hesitation), and it can't be something you can see them thinking about.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Oooh. Great post!

For me the difference is in the intent and resolve to kill and a solid disavowing of regret. Kara will kill without thought, she will kill with planned intent and she will not let someone live whom she thinks deserves to die. There are rare exceptions, including Leoben of all frakkers (and prob others), but in the end, she does what she has to do and does not look back. She can be brutal in her approach and if it wasn't for her incredibly vulnerability and love for her friends, she'd go beyond badass into psycho territory.

I think the willingness to kill separates many of the characters you highlight above. Buffy his the 80% mark for me, too, because she didn't really want to kill. She wanted to be a normal teenager who dated and lived an ordinary life. Faith, on the other hand, embraced her identity as a fighter. It's a significant difference. (I'm glossing over Faith's subtleties, but you get my point.)

(This brings to mind the women from Kill Bill, too. Black Mamba and The Bride are total badasses (although BM crosses into psycho for sure.) There was a resolve and determination about them - a willingness to kill when needed without question.)

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the women from Kill Bill, definitely.

And yes definitely a willingness to kill. I watched a lot of Salt with my mind on what would be different had they kept the role a man. And I think that willingness to go there, to kill, to take extreme action is something that's a given when it's a male character, and something that's not a given with women. I think, maybe it's expected that they'll pull back or give in to the nurturing side at some point. Expected and...almost required, for them to be the hero.

Someone compared Salt in EW to a Bourne movie and I thought that was a really apt description. You don't know much about Jason Bourne and his motives (because neither does he) but you don't necessarily expect some kind of altruism at heart, whereas...maybe you do with female characters. (You being the more general you of course.)

I think the willingness translates into knowing they can do this well and taking a pride/joy in that fact. If that slight edge of pride/joy/confidence is missing and it's only getting done out of rote duty...I find it harder to believe.

[scifishipper.livejournal.com]

Yes, I like your distinction between male and female action heroes. For too long, women are portrayed as being overwhelmed by their softer, empathetic side and people are shocked when women commit horrific crimes. I am not sure that as a society, we're going in the right direction there, but the point is well taken.

I also agree with the point that they take pride in their work. For Kara, being a soldier and a fighter is important - and I think she revels in the power she has to kill and that it somehow makes up for the vulnerability she's not so comfortable with. I think there's also a heartless edge to Kara that also makes her a badass for me. I haven't really thought about it that much, but her edge is a little frightening. Maybe it's that visceral reaction I have as a watcher, that she is totally committed to her baddassery and will take no shit from no one. Maybe when a hero does not make me nervous, I am not convinced? Dunno. *ponders*

[baciami2.livejournal.com]

Your headline totally makes me want to refer to Jamie from now on as Jamie BAMFer instead of Bamber. Although as we all know, even Jamie according to interviews, Starbuck is the universe's biggest BAMF.

[baciami2.livejournal.com]

Not to stir the pot *stirs* but was there ever any sense of the preference between Lee and Sam for those peeps who were Kara fans more than shippers? I'd like to think that TeamSpank et al prefered Lee, but remember I'm a shipper with rose-colored glasses. *stops stirring*

[callmeonetrack.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure it would hold up in court but I would suggest that most hardcore Kara fans are not K/L shippers, and that includes Team Spank. I only know one other hardcore K/L fan who is part of TeamSpank (Canadiangirl_86) and she's not really in fandom anymore.

Among TeamSpank, I'd say there's probably an equal and very small number of peeps who have a strict OTP for Kara (whether it's Lee, Sam or even Leoben), and far more multishippers and non-shippers.